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foreign

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[Music]

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and welcome to the show I'm Martin

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Willis your host I'm really excited

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about tonight we have the one and only

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Jacques Valley on tonight and he'll be

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talking about his uh his latest book

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it's called Uh Trinity the best kept

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secret and I actually had no idea that

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there was a supposed UFO crash in 1945

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you know you always think of the modern

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UFO era as starting in 1947 so this is

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really fascinating I started reading the

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book and uh it's really really good in

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just the forward in the book I thought

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was very well written as well uh

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tomorrow night uh we have we're going to

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be right here on YouTube and Facebook

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um with the everything else show that

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will be with Nick Redfern he has uh

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thoughts on the possibility of how the

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pyramids were built he's a pro prolific

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writer he's written so many books and

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this one is on that theory his idea on

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that just a few things we have a lot of

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things coming up I'm pretty excited

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about first of all

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on October 3rd I'll be up in Nova Scotia

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at shag Harbor at the conference up

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there I'm going to be one of the

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speakers up there I'm pretty excited

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about that

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and uh recently I'm honored that the

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producers of the Ariel phenomenon asked

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Randall Nickerson

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who he would want at a live Premiere

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Theater premiere of the movie coming out

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that's October 8th and he said I'll only

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have one person and that's Martin Willis

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so I'm very honored that I'm going to be

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there live it's going to be October 8th

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which is a Saturday evening so it'll be

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a different night I won't be on kgra

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radio but I will be on YouTube Facebook

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and all that and of course it'll go out

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as a podcast there's going to be a lot

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of very interesting people there it

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should be a lot of fun and uh there's

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some people that are flying out I know

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for instance that Selma citic is flying

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out and if maybe some other people

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and they'll join us so that should be a

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lot of fun really looking forward to

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things coming up uh the second week in

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October I will be out in Phoenix Arizona

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at the international UFO Congress and if

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you plan on attending and you're going

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to be out there I'm going to try to do a

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live Round Table out there like I

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usually do and just throw me an email at

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Martin Willis at I'm sorry Martin at

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podcast ufo.com and I will uh we'll make

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arrangements and we'll get together and

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it should be a lot of fun so without any

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further delay I'm bringing in Jacques

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welcome to the show Jacques

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thank you I delighted to be here again

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yeah that's right it was uh I think it

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was about three years ago last time we

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spoke uh always a pleasure that has

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happened in three years oh my goodness

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hasn't it yeah especially lately I mean

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it just seems like

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like the snowball going down the hill in

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the UFO world it's it's really great and

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that must be really

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um something for you to see since you've

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been at this for such a long time

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um to see all the changes and the fact

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that science may take this a little more

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seriously than they ever did yes and

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that's uh it's a profound feeling when I

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think of all the Pioneers in this

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research who are my mentors like Dr

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heineck and and they made me shell and

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many others uh who I'll not alive now to

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see the time when the stigma is removed

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I mean no this is a the subject is

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accepted in polite company which it

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wasn't you know just three years ago so

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I'm gratified to have lived long enough

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to

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participate in this with uh but there is

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a lot of work to do and as as you know

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I'm doing right now I'm only doing three

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things to try to help some of it is

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publishing the data we have on materials

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and I've been doing most of that with Dr

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Nolan at Stanford Dr Gary Nolan

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um and uh we as you may know we have

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published the first paper which is

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really the first fully reviewed

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scientific paper on

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um a UFO materials and UFOs as as

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physics accepted in a prime uh journal

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the international Journal

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so we we hope that this is going to open

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uh an Avenue or Boulevard for other

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people for our colleagues to be able to

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publish now because we've sort of broken

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The Log Jam

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right

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the uh the other thing that I'm

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still doing is uh of course working with

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the cnes in France the the center you

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know the French Center for space studies

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has had a an investigation a small small

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project but very active in France for a

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long time for over 30 years and so I'm

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participating in in their work and you

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know as you know a lot of

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cases classic cases in France like the

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valence or case for example

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that that are in their fives and where

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we continue to do to do research on

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cases there

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um

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the another thing that I've done is of

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course to be part of the the project

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initiated by Mr bigorow by Robert

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Bigelow

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that became

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known as bass a Bigelow Aerospace space

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studies and

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um there is a lot of confusion about

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what we did

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um but I'm I'm hoping that eventually

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what we published what we we gave to the

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the sponsor will be published and will

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be will be accessible because there was

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a lot of a lot of good work done there

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that people don't know about and all the

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quarrels and all the discussions have

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been on

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relatively you know small things and the

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main contribution hasn't been fully

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realized so the main contribution of

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that project

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uh it's a period that the project was

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stopped after two years but maybe other

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people can pick up what we did and carry

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it further

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out of what we did was to build the and

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that's something I'm very proud of

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because I was the the designer of the

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project and the manager of the project

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at the beginning Israel launchers

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database actually a data warehouse of a

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number of databases from all over the

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world that is now

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at a single structural level and

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available for AI we we had designed the

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AI component and have not had time to

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really exercise it but this was

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probably and as you know part of that is

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still classified but this is probably

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the largest

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uh activity that the project was

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involved in and I'm I'm hoping that this

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will see the light of day sometimes

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because it can be used by by other

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groups within the government and

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eventually by you know by other research

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groups if uh if if it's allowed so this

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is really what I've been what I've been

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doing and it's coming to light little by

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little

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and of course you know the investigation

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um with Paola Harris at uh Trinity

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and we just published the the new

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edition of it because we we found new

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Witnesses and we've been able to extend

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the the investigation uh into uh more of

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the details of what really happened

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there and what happened after the

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initial incident

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wow that that is you know it often

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happens when something comes out

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and then the word gets out there and

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that happens like with any type of film

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or anything on any type of case and all

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of a sudden all these people feel you

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know uh like they can come forward and

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talk about their experience and that's

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that happened with the Pascagoula case

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recently someone had came forward and

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that was I believe that was all the way

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back in 1973 something like that

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yes I I never stopped working on on a

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case if it's a primary case exactly for

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what what you said that new items come

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up but in in the case of Trinity it it's

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a little bit special because the

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witnesses never spoke for 60 years right

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they were for two reasons one is that

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they they felt that what they had seen

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was very personal was very intimate for

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them

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the other thing is that they grew up

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remember they were kids at the time they

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grew up in the environment of World War

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II where if you saw something you didn't

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talk about it right and if but if you

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saw a crash what you saw an accident

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when you were the first there you had to

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bring help to the pilot or to to the

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people who are involved and that's

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that's what what happened to them when

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that very strange object crashed on

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their land and many people have trouble

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you know in the first edition

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and maybe it's my fault

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um

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you know Paula had gathered all that

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information and so on and when I wrote

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the book and when I started working with

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her I worked primarily with the data

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from the two kids and people you know

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well-intentioned critics

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um I would I will uh assume that there

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are well intentioned said look at this

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you know a seven-year-old and a

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nine-year-old what do they know you know

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about aerodynamics and about all this

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they probably saw something strange when

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they made up the story well those two

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kids were very bright the reason they

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were there pending the ranch was that

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this was uh actually it happened just

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one month after the explosion of the

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book the first book you know at White

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Sands at Trinity at the Trinity site

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which was still at that point completely

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Secret

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and the of course your bomb was in

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secret anymore

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um Japan had just surrendered

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but all the

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fighting people were still in uniform

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they were Americans were scattered in

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all over the Pacific or over Europe and

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so on

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um people had not come home yet had not

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been demilitarized so you know the kids

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were running a lot of things and those

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two kids were taking care of the Revenge

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taking care of the cattle they had

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binoculars to to track you know the the

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cows to read the brands and so on to

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make sure no animal had been stolen they

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were there on that particular day

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because our account one of the cows was

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going to have a calf and they wanted to

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make sure that both the the calf and the

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mother were okay and they had to report

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that to their father so they are there

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with their horses so very large Ranch by

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now I know I know very well

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that research was initiated Again by by

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Paula when she by accident she read an

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article in a small local paper

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and she contacted she contacted the

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people when uh just about 10 years ago

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when they came out with the stone they

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had been silent since 1945. so this

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reset the the start of really the the

277
00:14:21,710 --> 00:14:18,720
modern era of UFOs two years before

278
00:14:24,290 --> 00:14:21,720
Roosevelt now two years before Roswell

279
00:14:26,150 --> 00:14:24,300
there was no Air Force there were

280
00:14:28,790 --> 00:14:26,160
airplanes and they were pilots but it

281
00:14:32,829 --> 00:14:28,800
was the Army Air Force they were army

282
00:14:35,689 --> 00:14:32,839
uniforms uh and army army equipment

283
00:14:38,810 --> 00:14:35,699
there were no flying sauces but term did

284
00:14:40,970 --> 00:14:38,820
not exist you know can I found out is

285
00:14:45,290 --> 00:14:40,980
going to invent the term two years from

286
00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:45,300
now okay and uh so there was no

287
00:14:50,689 --> 00:14:47,880
framework for what they saw also what

288
00:14:54,050 --> 00:14:50,699
they saw was not a disc it was not a

289
00:14:57,949 --> 00:14:54,060
saucer it was they called it the novel

290
00:15:01,150 --> 00:14:57,959
cattle of course yeah everybody in New

291
00:15:06,170 --> 00:15:01,160
Mexico spoke English and Spanish

292
00:15:09,350 --> 00:15:06,180
and these two kids grew up in uh in the

293
00:15:11,509 --> 00:15:09,360
Spanish-speaking families so

294
00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:11,519
um it's been a fascinating study and

295
00:15:16,310 --> 00:15:13,380
it's not over

296
00:15:18,530 --> 00:15:16,320
because we found new Witnesses and

297
00:15:20,829 --> 00:15:18,540
that's what the new edition of the book

298
00:15:23,870 --> 00:15:20,839
is is all about

299
00:15:26,629 --> 00:15:23,880
excellent and when these people come

300
00:15:27,650 --> 00:15:26,639
forward I mean that's a that's a long

301
00:15:31,370 --> 00:15:27,660
time

302
00:15:33,590 --> 00:15:31,380
60 years did any of them make any

303
00:15:36,290 --> 00:15:33,600
records or drawings or anything like

304
00:15:38,990 --> 00:15:36,300
that you know contemporary with the

305
00:15:48,470 --> 00:15:44,629
yes and the we I asked um Jose but he

306
00:15:51,249 --> 00:15:48,480
had to draw it again for me and uh the

307
00:15:54,170 --> 00:15:51,259
the his drawing is in is in the book

308
00:15:57,410 --> 00:15:54,180
they the main thing they did was to

309
00:15:59,949 --> 00:15:57,420
measure it very carefully the thing was

310
00:16:04,670 --> 00:15:59,959
very large it was a size of two trucks

311
00:16:08,990 --> 00:16:04,680
to uh fraud 150s you know put together

312
00:16:11,449 --> 00:16:09,000
but it was 15 feet high so

313
00:16:14,329 --> 00:16:11,459
you know the the idea that this was

314
00:16:16,850 --> 00:16:14,339
contrived as a host

315
00:16:19,970 --> 00:16:16,860
um which is a night of course an idea we

316
00:16:22,850 --> 00:16:19,980
considered uh doesn't doesn't really

317
00:16:24,829 --> 00:16:22,860
hold water and it doesn't hold water for

318
00:16:26,689 --> 00:16:24,839
other reasons and are even more

319
00:16:34,129 --> 00:16:26,699
important but

320
00:16:36,350 --> 00:16:34,139
um we argued uh without ways in which we

321
00:16:38,810 --> 00:16:36,360
could find out what their weight was and

322
00:16:41,090 --> 00:16:38,820
we could in fact get an estimate of the

323
00:16:44,150 --> 00:16:41,100
weight from the equipment that the Army

324
00:16:46,790 --> 00:16:44,160
brought to the site which was

325
00:16:50,150 --> 00:16:46,800
um you know a very large truck with a

326
00:16:52,670 --> 00:16:50,160
platform the kind of track platform is

327
00:16:56,210 --> 00:16:52,680
called a lowboy and that's a kind of

328
00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:56,220
army truck that carries two tanks so

329
00:17:00,650 --> 00:16:58,079
they knew they had an idea of the weight

330
00:17:04,669 --> 00:17:00,660
of that tank they also brought a special

331
00:17:08,090 --> 00:17:04,679
crane to lift it and to put it sideways

332
00:17:10,189 --> 00:17:08,100
on the platform of a truck because if

333
00:17:14,090 --> 00:17:10,199
they put it upright it was egg shaped

334
00:17:17,150 --> 00:17:14,100
that if they put it in the long the long

335
00:17:21,130 --> 00:17:17,160
diameter it couldn't pass under the

336
00:17:23,569 --> 00:17:21,140
bridge on their Highway okay so

337
00:17:25,549 --> 00:17:23,579
that's when the kids had the opportunity

338
00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:25,559
to look at the underside of the object

339
00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:29,280
and realized it had no visible means of

340
00:17:35,210 --> 00:17:33,360
propulsion now when they saw the object

341
00:17:37,909 --> 00:17:35,220
crash

342
00:17:40,909 --> 00:17:37,919
it hit a communication Tower

343
00:17:43,669 --> 00:17:40,919
and this is where I put the emphasis in

344
00:17:45,049 --> 00:17:43,679
on the new edition the first witness is

345
00:17:48,650 --> 00:17:45,059
not the kids

346
00:17:52,250 --> 00:17:48,660
the first witness is a bomber pilot the

347
00:17:54,409 --> 00:17:52,260
experienced model pilot named Bradley we

348
00:17:57,169 --> 00:17:54,419
are all t-h-y

349
00:17:59,690 --> 00:17:57,179
he was coming in for for a landing with

350
00:18:02,090 --> 00:17:59,700
a barber a B-25

351
00:18:05,810 --> 00:18:02,100
uh two engine bomber

352
00:18:07,010 --> 00:18:05,820
uh the bombers had bombed Japan during

353
00:18:09,529 --> 00:18:07,020
the war

354
00:18:12,710 --> 00:18:09,539
not not the ones who dropped the bomb

355
00:18:15,890 --> 00:18:12,720
but the ones who were used during the at

356
00:18:17,950 --> 00:18:15,900
the beginning of the war and uh he comes

357
00:18:22,010 --> 00:18:17,960
in for a landing at Alamogordo

358
00:18:25,310 --> 00:18:22,020
Alamogordo Tower asked him to look at

359
00:18:28,730 --> 00:18:25,320
the communication Tower which is sitting

360
00:18:31,430 --> 00:18:28,740
on that ranch on the Padilla on the

361
00:18:34,730 --> 00:18:31,440
Padilla right and because they've lost

362
00:18:37,610 --> 00:18:34,740
communication with that Tower is one of

363
00:18:39,890 --> 00:18:37,620
three towers that direct airplanes

364
00:18:42,289 --> 00:18:39,900
including civilian airplanes around

365
00:18:45,110 --> 00:18:42,299
White Sands and they've lost

366
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:45,120
communication with it so he circles that

367
00:18:50,870 --> 00:18:47,520
Tower and sees that the tower has been

368
00:18:53,930 --> 00:18:50,880
hit by something the tower is bent he

369
00:18:57,049 --> 00:18:53,940
reports that and then he reports when he

370
00:18:59,450 --> 00:18:57,059
sees smoke that the vegetation is on

371
00:19:03,529 --> 00:18:59,460
fire and there is an egg-shaped object

372
00:19:06,970 --> 00:19:03,539
that has quote crashed in the in the

373
00:19:10,490 --> 00:19:06,980
underbrush which there is mostly

374
00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:10,500
Cactus and small palm trees and so on

375
00:19:17,630 --> 00:19:14,940
and he sees two kids so he places the

376
00:19:19,970 --> 00:19:17,640
kids at the site in his report to

377
00:19:22,490 --> 00:19:19,980
Alamogordo so this is very different

378
00:19:24,590 --> 00:19:22,500
from Roswell I mean Roswell is very

379
00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:24,600
important of course in fact this

380
00:19:29,810 --> 00:19:26,640
validates Roswell

381
00:19:32,750 --> 00:19:29,820
but Roswell is two years later at

382
00:19:35,390 --> 00:19:32,760
Roswell there is no witness

383
00:19:39,610 --> 00:19:35,400
there is a big thunderstorm something

384
00:19:42,650 --> 00:19:39,620
crashes on the ranch the the military is

385
00:19:47,450 --> 00:19:42,660
alerted they looked for they looked for

386
00:19:50,210 --> 00:19:47,460
it and then a Rancher rides out to you

387
00:19:53,930 --> 00:19:50,220
know to that property and finds a debris

388
00:19:56,930 --> 00:19:53,940
the next day or the day after okay here

389
00:19:58,789 --> 00:19:56,940
we have the witnesses there watching the

390
00:20:03,049 --> 00:19:58,799
thing fall

391
00:20:04,909 --> 00:20:03,059
um the the pilot lands at Alamogordo

392
00:20:08,510 --> 00:20:04,919
the two kids

393
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:08,520
go to see if they can help because

394
00:20:14,390 --> 00:20:09,840
that's

395
00:20:16,850 --> 00:20:14,400
you know I've had to to me the the whole

396
00:20:19,730 --> 00:20:16,860
investigation has been

397
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:19,740
you know somewhat emotional because it

398
00:20:26,090 --> 00:20:21,919
has made me realize

399
00:20:28,909 --> 00:20:26,100
what the second world war you know was

400
00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:28,919
from the United States point of view but

401
00:20:34,669 --> 00:20:31,260
I know it very well from the French

402
00:20:38,510 --> 00:20:34,679
point of view because I was born in 1939

403
00:20:41,570 --> 00:20:38,520
the first year of the war uh by the end

404
00:20:44,450 --> 00:20:41,580
of the war in 45 I was old enough to

405
00:20:48,350 --> 00:20:44,460
understand what was going on and to see

406
00:20:51,350 --> 00:20:48,360
you know German batteries you know uh

407
00:20:53,090 --> 00:20:51,360
shutting down American planes so again I

408
00:20:56,630 --> 00:20:53,100
could see the planes fall I could see

409
00:20:59,570 --> 00:20:56,640
the parachutes and I could see the uh

410
00:21:02,570 --> 00:20:59,580
you know the pilots being shot in the

411
00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:02,580
air on the parachutes and so on though

412
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:05,520
there was no place to hide where I was

413
00:21:11,270 --> 00:21:07,280
and

414
00:21:14,690 --> 00:21:11,280
so seeing the the sequelier of the war

415
00:21:19,430 --> 00:21:14,700
and learning about what happened in 1945

416
00:21:22,490 --> 00:21:19,440
in New Mexico uh at White Sands when all

417
00:21:24,950 --> 00:21:22,500
these Geniuses in physics and I you know

418
00:21:28,789 --> 00:21:24,960
I've read I've learned what they what

419
00:21:32,090 --> 00:21:28,799
they did uh in you know in my training

420
00:21:34,490 --> 00:21:32,100
in science I mean you know Enrico Fermi

421
00:21:36,890 --> 00:21:34,500
Oppenheimer all these people are you

422
00:21:41,570 --> 00:21:36,900
know Legends in in physics in American

423
00:21:45,230 --> 00:21:41,580
physics in worm physics so uh to be able

424
00:21:47,810 --> 00:21:45,240
to go to the place where they had lunch

425
00:21:50,149 --> 00:21:47,820
when they were preparing the bomb and to

426
00:21:53,470 --> 00:21:50,159
be to be able to visit the site you know

427
00:21:57,830 --> 00:21:53,480
was was an incredible experience

428
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:57,840
so this is real this is not a joke this

429
00:22:03,789 --> 00:22:01,679
is not two kids dreaming uh the two kids

430
00:22:07,490 --> 00:22:03,799
did actually a very good job of

431
00:22:11,049 --> 00:22:07,500
describing the object measuring it they

432
00:22:14,750 --> 00:22:11,059
actually paste it uh when the the

433
00:22:18,950 --> 00:22:14,760
soldiers were you know out having lunch

434
00:22:20,110 --> 00:22:18,960
at the local uh the little local eating

435
00:22:24,230 --> 00:22:20,120
place

436
00:22:29,210 --> 00:22:24,240
they they took every opportunity to look

437
00:22:32,409 --> 00:22:29,220
at the craft the the father of Mr

438
00:22:34,549 --> 00:22:32,419
Padilla Faustino Padilla went inside

439
00:22:39,970 --> 00:22:34,559
Guided by the kids

440
00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:39,980
with a state patrol State officer

441
00:22:47,149 --> 00:22:44,520
when they came out they set the kids

442
00:22:49,549 --> 00:22:47,159
down and they said

443
00:22:53,149 --> 00:22:49,559
nobody talks about us

444
00:22:55,490 --> 00:22:53,159
this is not for us this doesn't belong

445
00:22:59,270 --> 00:22:55,500
you know it fell on our property

446
00:23:01,909 --> 00:22:59,280
it fell on the ranch but this is this

447
00:23:04,370 --> 00:23:01,919
stays within our family you don't talk

448
00:23:06,890 --> 00:23:04,380
in class you don't talk to your buddies

449
00:23:09,710 --> 00:23:06,900
you know this is serious this is for the

450
00:23:13,669 --> 00:23:09,720
Army to do something about it

451
00:23:17,230 --> 00:23:13,679
the next day an army officer comes to

452
00:23:21,409 --> 00:23:17,240
the home of Mr Padilla

453
00:23:23,110 --> 00:23:21,419
and says Senor no of course I speak in

454
00:23:26,510 --> 00:23:23,120
Spanish

455
00:23:29,390 --> 00:23:26,520
most of the people there you know spoke

456
00:23:32,149 --> 00:23:29,400
indifferently Spanish or English but

457
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:32,159
their mother language was usually

458
00:23:39,950 --> 00:23:33,360
Spanish

459
00:23:42,529 --> 00:23:39,960
the father and says we are going to need

460
00:23:45,769 --> 00:23:42,539
to cut your friends

461
00:23:48,110 --> 00:23:45,779
the father says there is an opening in

462
00:23:50,510 --> 00:23:48,120
my fence I mean that's where there's a

463
00:23:53,510 --> 00:23:50,520
general truck you know goes in and out

464
00:23:54,230 --> 00:23:53,520
when we take the cows out

465
00:23:57,470 --> 00:23:54,240
um

466
00:23:59,750 --> 00:23:57,480
and the the officer says it's not big

467
00:24:02,570 --> 00:23:59,760
enough for the truck

468
00:24:05,570 --> 00:24:02,580
but we're going to give you a nice you

469
00:24:09,169 --> 00:24:05,580
know nice barrier we'll we'll do it it

470
00:24:10,490 --> 00:24:09,179
will be really clean and will bring a

471
00:24:14,990 --> 00:24:10,500
tractor

472
00:24:17,690 --> 00:24:15,000
to build a new road to where that thing

473
00:24:18,890 --> 00:24:17,700
fell because the object didn't just

474
00:24:21,710 --> 00:24:18,900
scratch

475
00:24:24,950 --> 00:24:21,720
this is not it's that if you want to

476
00:24:28,490 --> 00:24:24,960
call into a crash call it a controlled

477
00:24:32,570 --> 00:24:28,500
crash it it hit the tower

478
00:24:36,289 --> 00:24:32,580
it kept it kept its Integrity so it was

479
00:24:40,669 --> 00:24:36,299
still x-shaped and so it lost one panel

480
00:24:41,930 --> 00:24:40,679
the one apparently metallic panel but it

481
00:24:47,409 --> 00:24:41,940
it then

482
00:24:50,630 --> 00:24:47,419
uh landed and it dug a an Avenue

483
00:24:54,049 --> 00:24:50,640
a a Boulevard down the hill

484
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:54,059
uh digging it up by about six inches of

485
00:24:59,930 --> 00:24:57,600
of dirt as it plowed down the hill for

486
00:25:02,210 --> 00:24:59,940
about half a mile wow and then it

487
00:25:04,789 --> 00:25:02,220
stopped the middle turn apparently under

488
00:25:07,430 --> 00:25:04,799
power so this is not a crush you know an

489
00:25:10,190 --> 00:25:07,440
airplane hitting that Tower then you

490
00:25:13,250 --> 00:25:10,200
know you can see the the traces of the

491
00:25:15,289 --> 00:25:13,260
tower it's a gigantic Tower uh an

492
00:25:18,409 --> 00:25:15,299
airplane would have broken up into

493
00:25:21,710 --> 00:25:18,419
little pieces that thing kept going and

494
00:25:24,169 --> 00:25:21,720
it stopped apparently under control

495
00:25:27,350 --> 00:25:24,179
um so now the Army has to bring a truck

496
00:25:30,409 --> 00:25:27,360
they come in first with Jeeps just to

497
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:30,419
clean up the the bushes and so on and

498
00:25:36,110 --> 00:25:33,360
pick up blue species unfortunately

499
00:25:39,590 --> 00:25:36,120
because we'd like we'd like to find some

500
00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:39,600
and fertilizer but

501
00:25:47,269 --> 00:25:44,100
um it uh at after they build the gate

502
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:47,279
they bring in you know an 18-wheeler

503
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:50,159
with a lowboy that could carry two tanks

504
00:25:56,210 --> 00:25:53,760
and they bring a crane so that tells you

505
00:25:59,930 --> 00:25:56,220
that this is not a plywood little

506
00:26:02,390 --> 00:25:59,940
balloon that somebody built as a joke uh

507
00:26:04,730 --> 00:26:02,400
I don't think anybody was drunking you

508
00:26:07,549 --> 00:26:04,740
know around the Trinity site one month

509
00:26:09,470 --> 00:26:07,559
after the first nuclear explosion right

510
00:26:13,430 --> 00:26:09,480
right exactly when you're talking about

511
00:26:15,409 --> 00:26:13,440
how far that that trench when it does

512
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:15,419
sound like something that weighed a

513
00:26:21,950 --> 00:26:18,480
great deal and had quite a velocity to

514
00:26:24,169 --> 00:26:21,960
uh make that type of uh gouge in the

515
00:26:27,049 --> 00:26:24,179
earth like that uh one of the things

516
00:26:28,190 --> 00:26:27,059
that comes to mind though is they loaded

517
00:26:30,649 --> 00:26:28,200
this thing up

518
00:26:33,289 --> 00:26:30,659
they put it somewhere and what would you

519
00:26:35,029 --> 00:26:33,299
be your best guess where it would be and

520
00:26:37,010 --> 00:26:35,039
do you think it still exists today

521
00:26:38,269 --> 00:26:37,020
somewhere

522
00:26:39,409 --> 00:26:38,279
well

523
00:26:42,169 --> 00:26:39,419
um

524
00:26:45,409 --> 00:26:42,179
all I can do is is guess because the

525
00:26:48,049 --> 00:26:45,419
other side of the story is you know

526
00:26:51,130 --> 00:26:48,059
there has been no official record of

527
00:26:55,730 --> 00:26:51,140
this that has been published

528
00:26:57,909 --> 00:26:55,740
so the the reason the question is where

529
00:27:01,610 --> 00:26:57,919
would they how and and

530
00:27:05,230 --> 00:27:01,620
where would they have taken it

531
00:27:07,669 --> 00:27:05,240
well it's now on the lowboy

532
00:27:11,210 --> 00:27:07,679
the the soldiers have done their job

533
00:27:13,490 --> 00:27:11,220
they go have you know a final meal at

534
00:27:17,090 --> 00:27:13,500
the local local little restaurant which

535
00:27:19,610 --> 00:27:17,100
is about five five or ten miles away

536
00:27:22,549 --> 00:27:19,620
uh they come back they take the truck

537
00:27:25,070 --> 00:27:22,559
and they drive to Trinity

538
00:27:27,470 --> 00:27:25,080
um we know that because that's what the

539
00:27:30,110 --> 00:27:27,480
reason they put the object on the side

540
00:27:32,630 --> 00:27:30,120
so they could go under the under the

541
00:27:35,389 --> 00:27:32,640
overpass and then on the way to the

542
00:27:37,490 --> 00:27:35,399
Trinity site which is the most logical

543
00:27:41,570 --> 00:27:37,500
thing because the soldiers who were

544
00:27:45,169 --> 00:27:41,580
there were you know young kids 18 or 20

545
00:27:47,350 --> 00:27:45,179
year olds who probably had not been at

546
00:27:50,029 --> 00:27:47,360
at the front

547
00:27:52,430 --> 00:27:50,039
and they were there God just guarding

548
00:27:54,769 --> 00:27:52,440
the Trinity site but they had no

549
00:27:57,590 --> 00:27:54,779
business after they recovered the thing

550
00:28:00,649 --> 00:27:57,600
they had no business dealing with it so

551
00:28:02,570 --> 00:28:00,659
the the track goes to Trinity

552
00:28:05,570 --> 00:28:02,580
it wouldn't stay there because there's

553
00:28:08,330 --> 00:28:05,580
nothing there for to study it

554
00:28:10,029 --> 00:28:08,340
it would probably have been taken to Los

555
00:28:12,529 --> 00:28:10,039
Alamos

556
00:28:13,450 --> 00:28:12,539
and for all I knew it was still big

557
00:28:15,950 --> 00:28:13,460
there

558
00:28:17,570 --> 00:28:15,960
that would be the place to take it

559
00:28:20,029 --> 00:28:17,580
because they would have

560
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:20,039
it would have been immediately brought

561
00:28:26,389 --> 00:28:23,520
to the attention of the physics labs and

562
00:28:27,529 --> 00:28:26,399
the you know the biological Labs at Los

563
00:28:31,549 --> 00:28:27,539
Alamos

564
00:28:33,130 --> 00:28:31,559
that were equipped to to deal with you

565
00:28:36,529 --> 00:28:33,140
know pretty much anything

566
00:28:37,669 --> 00:28:36,539
uh in in physics that could come to

567
00:28:40,010 --> 00:28:37,679
their attention

568
00:28:43,430 --> 00:28:40,020
from Los Alamos

569
00:28:47,210 --> 00:28:43,440
uh we don't we really don't know where

570
00:28:51,049 --> 00:28:47,220
it if it was broken about

571
00:28:54,070 --> 00:28:51,059
you know taken to different Labs uh in

572
00:28:57,190 --> 00:28:54,080
in my own career in in science and in

573
00:28:59,289 --> 00:28:57,200
investment I've met a number of people

574
00:29:01,090 --> 00:28:59,299
uh you know

575
00:29:04,549 --> 00:29:01,100
some

576
00:29:08,049 --> 00:29:04,559
leading engineers at IBM who told me

577
00:29:11,149 --> 00:29:08,059
that they had been asked

578
00:29:14,210 --> 00:29:11,159
John and this is this would have been in

579
00:29:18,529 --> 00:29:14,220
the 60s and 70s had been asked to look

580
00:29:20,870 --> 00:29:18,539
at at samples at residuals of metal and

581
00:29:23,230 --> 00:29:20,880
so on and so we know some of it would

582
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:23,240
have gone through IBM certainly to Lucky

583
00:29:30,409 --> 00:29:26,960
probably to Mattel and then you know

584
00:29:33,529 --> 00:29:30,419
some of the leading companies where the

585
00:29:37,250 --> 00:29:33,539
the government had secure facilities and

586
00:29:39,830 --> 00:29:37,260
secure contracts with with Scientists

587
00:29:43,070 --> 00:29:39,840
were you know eminent scientists in

588
00:29:44,510 --> 00:29:43,080
their own world who could look at the uh

589
00:29:49,010 --> 00:29:44,520
the IBM

590
00:29:52,789 --> 00:29:49,020
Chief scientist uh and he was a one of

591
00:29:56,230 --> 00:29:52,799
the leading he's dead now so I can I can

592
00:30:00,470 --> 00:29:56,240
talk about that conversation but he was

593
00:30:04,310 --> 00:30:00,480
really one of the leading uh physicists

594
00:30:07,010 --> 00:30:04,320
who gave us magnetic memory IBM was a

595
00:30:07,870 --> 00:30:07,020
reader magnetic memory for many many

596
00:30:10,070 --> 00:30:07,880
years

597
00:30:13,789 --> 00:30:10,080
revolutionizing computer science field

598
00:30:14,769 --> 00:30:13,799
with Magnetic memory and he would have

599
00:30:18,169 --> 00:30:14,779
been

600
00:30:20,450 --> 00:30:18,179
he was an extraordinary researcher than

601
00:30:23,269 --> 00:30:20,460
inventor he would have been the logical

602
00:30:26,810 --> 00:30:23,279
person to look at some of the materials

603
00:30:28,930 --> 00:30:26,820
the material from Trinity we just don't

604
00:30:33,889 --> 00:30:28,940
know where it would have gone but

605
00:30:37,250 --> 00:30:33,899
one of the kids the seven-year-old when

606
00:30:40,250 --> 00:30:37,260
he grew up moved to Washington State

607
00:30:43,010 --> 00:30:40,260
and became involved in politics in in

608
00:30:45,549 --> 00:30:43,020
Washington state and

609
00:30:51,889 --> 00:30:45,559
um was

610
00:30:55,250 --> 00:30:51,899
was was involved in uh the the the the

611
00:30:58,430 --> 00:30:55,260
politics there at a time when the

612
00:31:01,430 --> 00:30:58,440
governor Dixie Lee Ray was running for

613
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:01,440
re-election or for election Victory Ray

614
00:31:08,090 --> 00:31:04,320
as you may know was herself was a

615
00:31:12,350 --> 00:31:08,100
physicist she became the director

616
00:31:13,810 --> 00:31:12,360
um of the atomic energy Commission

617
00:31:22,190 --> 00:31:13,820
and

618
00:31:27,110 --> 00:31:22,200
since she had worked grossly with Remy

619
00:31:30,289 --> 00:31:27,120
Remy Baker who was the the kid the

620
00:31:33,730 --> 00:31:30,299
seven-year-old kid uh I I find it hard

621
00:31:37,750 --> 00:31:33,740
to think of these two witnesses as kids

622
00:31:41,450 --> 00:31:37,760
for sure because I you know I I

623
00:31:44,630 --> 00:31:41,460
interacted with what they did as as old

624
00:31:45,710 --> 00:31:44,640
men and again they hadn't spoken for 60

625
00:31:48,289 --> 00:31:45,720
years

626
00:31:53,029 --> 00:31:48,299
uh so all this came out when they were

627
00:31:57,529 --> 00:31:53,039
you know they were older men

628
00:32:01,370 --> 00:31:57,539
um she uh went to a safe

629
00:32:05,509 --> 00:32:01,380
and showed him the report

630
00:32:10,370 --> 00:32:05,519
about the uh the Trinity case

631
00:32:12,289 --> 00:32:10,380
so he was able to get some

632
00:32:14,930 --> 00:32:12,299
comfort that

633
00:32:17,509 --> 00:32:14,940
you know the the thing had been taken

634
00:32:19,009 --> 00:32:17,519
care of the thing was but it was

635
00:32:22,909 --> 00:32:19,019
classified

636
00:32:25,009 --> 00:32:22,919
we also know from completely unrelated

637
00:32:29,750 --> 00:32:25,019
case

638
00:32:33,470 --> 00:32:29,760
in 1952 as you know the literature UFO

639
00:32:36,350 --> 00:32:33,480
literature is is very clear in 1952

640
00:32:41,090 --> 00:32:36,360
there was a big wave of

641
00:32:43,730 --> 00:32:41,100
um aircraft that were of spacecraft or

642
00:32:46,730 --> 00:32:43,740
UFOs that were intercepted over

643
00:32:49,370 --> 00:32:46,740
Washington including over the Pentagon

644
00:32:53,090 --> 00:32:49,380
and so on were intercepted by Navy

645
00:32:54,710 --> 00:32:53,100
Fighters and by Air Force Riders what

646
00:32:57,289 --> 00:32:54,720
isn't

647
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:57,299
really known and I don't know why

648
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:00,000
because I I know it that I found it

649
00:33:05,990 --> 00:33:03,120
somewhere is that one of the fighters

650
00:33:09,430 --> 00:33:06,000
was allowed to shoot

651
00:33:13,549 --> 00:33:09,440
at a time when the one of these objects

652
00:33:16,070 --> 00:33:13,559
there were discs actually from all in

653
00:33:20,450 --> 00:33:16,080
the direction of the White House or the

654
00:33:24,649 --> 00:33:20,460
you know secure space of the Washington

655
00:33:25,930 --> 00:33:24,659
um and uh he shot off a piece of it so

656
00:33:30,529 --> 00:33:25,940
where it fell

657
00:33:33,590 --> 00:33:30,539
uh it was a search for and the peace was

658
00:33:35,230 --> 00:33:33,600
recovered part of it was turned over to

659
00:33:38,210 --> 00:33:35,240
the Canadian project

660
00:33:42,950 --> 00:33:38,220
Canadian UFO research project which was

661
00:33:45,470 --> 00:33:42,960
an official government research study

662
00:33:47,750 --> 00:33:45,480
and the officer who

663
00:33:48,710 --> 00:33:47,760
took it there and gave it to the

664
00:33:52,909 --> 00:33:48,720
director

665
00:33:56,149 --> 00:33:52,919
said that in the United States that

666
00:34:00,169 --> 00:33:56,159
subject of recovery of materials

667
00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:00,179
from UFOs was classified higher than the

668
00:34:05,750 --> 00:34:03,480
atom bar and this was and he stated that

669
00:34:07,549 --> 00:34:05,760
you know in an interview to to

670
00:34:10,669 --> 00:34:07,559
journalists in Canada

671
00:34:13,010 --> 00:34:10,679
so that is Again part of the record this

672
00:34:15,409 --> 00:34:13,020
is not something that anybody has

673
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:15,419
invented this is part of the record

674
00:34:22,730 --> 00:34:19,440
so that would explain why

675
00:34:26,869 --> 00:34:22,740
uh number one the kids never spoke

676
00:34:28,690 --> 00:34:26,879
number two the atomic energy commission

677
00:34:32,030 --> 00:34:28,700
never spoke either

678
00:34:33,609 --> 00:34:32,040
because it would be still would be

679
00:34:36,730 --> 00:34:33,619
classified

680
00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:36,740
in a part of a classification system

681
00:34:42,109 --> 00:34:38,820
that most people with security

682
00:34:44,629 --> 00:34:42,119
clearances have no access namely the

683
00:34:47,030 --> 00:34:44,639
atomic secrets the atomic secrets are

684
00:34:52,250 --> 00:34:47,040
managed in our country

685
00:34:55,609 --> 00:34:52,260
in a separate branch of the the secrecy

686
00:34:59,150 --> 00:34:55,619
you know apparatus a sequencing system

687
00:35:00,010 --> 00:34:59,160
the the you know confidential secret top

688
00:35:03,829 --> 00:35:00,020
secret

689
00:35:06,109 --> 00:35:03,839
sap and all that is is one type of

690
00:35:09,050 --> 00:35:06,119
secret that's within the executive

691
00:35:11,690 --> 00:35:09,060
branch and primarily to the Pentagon

692
00:35:13,970 --> 00:35:11,700
that other you know uh Advocate about

693
00:35:16,609 --> 00:35:13,980
this as well then there is a separate

694
00:35:19,550 --> 00:35:16,619
system for the state department which is

695
00:35:22,130 --> 00:35:19,560
referring intelligence secrets that

696
00:35:24,890 --> 00:35:22,140
don't really need to go to the president

697
00:35:27,890 --> 00:35:24,900
and unless there is a specific reason

698
00:35:31,490 --> 00:35:27,900
for it that they are segregated for good

699
00:35:35,390 --> 00:35:31,500
reasons and then the atomic secrets are

700
00:35:37,250 --> 00:35:35,400
RP and Q sequence for which most people

701
00:35:40,690 --> 00:35:37,260
with the top secret clearance in the

702
00:35:44,690 --> 00:35:40,700
Pentagon don't have don't need to have

703
00:35:46,970 --> 00:35:44,700
that particular clearance so

704
00:35:51,109 --> 00:35:46,980
um many of the people I've met in the

705
00:35:54,349 --> 00:35:51,119
course of the atip bass project you know

706
00:35:57,650 --> 00:35:54,359
all of us had uh sequence for the time

707
00:36:00,589 --> 00:35:57,660
of the study but all the people I spoke

708
00:36:02,810 --> 00:36:00,599
there including people who had high you

709
00:36:04,430 --> 00:36:02,820
know currencies had never heard of

710
00:36:07,370 --> 00:36:04,440
Trinity

711
00:36:09,890 --> 00:36:07,380
because they they didn't have access to

712
00:36:13,550 --> 00:36:09,900
the they didn't have a need to know

713
00:36:16,930 --> 00:36:13,560
in the nuclear barrier

714
00:36:21,050 --> 00:36:16,940
right well you must be a little bit

715
00:36:23,270 --> 00:36:21,060
encouraged by while the Mandate for next

716
00:36:26,510 --> 00:36:23,280
year for the uh I'm trying to remember

717
00:36:29,329 --> 00:36:26,520
what the new the new acronym is for the

718
00:36:33,650 --> 00:36:29,339
government uh uh

719
00:36:35,810 --> 00:36:33,660
what's that yeah but uh but you must be

720
00:36:38,870 --> 00:36:35,820
encouraged because they're now going to

721
00:36:42,770 --> 00:36:38,880
look into historical cases which is very

722
00:36:45,470 --> 00:36:42,780
encouraging because I mean yes and I'm

723
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:45,480
ready and willing to

724
00:36:50,990 --> 00:36:48,960
that assist to any sources that I have I

725
00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:51,000
have access to

726
00:36:55,790 --> 00:36:52,800
um again

727
00:36:58,849 --> 00:36:55,800
a number of us as you know in in the UFO

728
00:37:02,510 --> 00:36:58,859
Community have done uh research that

729
00:37:05,089 --> 00:37:02,520
went into these these databases uh you

730
00:37:07,390 --> 00:37:05,099
know organizations like Newfound have

731
00:37:11,089 --> 00:37:07,400
done that for a long time

732
00:37:12,550 --> 00:37:11,099
I think many of the throwing fives you

733
00:37:16,569 --> 00:37:12,560
know would be available

734
00:37:20,569 --> 00:37:16,579
if they care to to look at foreign data

735
00:37:23,270 --> 00:37:20,579
and uh you know I'm I'm very encouraged

736
00:37:25,609 --> 00:37:23,280
that suddenly that the stigma has been

737
00:37:29,270 --> 00:37:25,619
removed yes

738
00:37:31,069 --> 00:37:29,280
um so so along that line someone is

739
00:37:33,170 --> 00:37:31,079
asking here there's people putting in

740
00:37:35,089 --> 00:37:33,180
questions in chat I'll try to get to

741
00:37:37,310 --> 00:37:35,099
them a couple of them here and someone

742
00:37:39,650 --> 00:37:37,320
want me to ask you if you had secrets

743
00:37:43,390 --> 00:37:39,660
you can't talk about

744
00:37:48,890 --> 00:37:43,400
well um yeah I mean that's that's uh

745
00:37:52,490 --> 00:37:48,900
that's clear uh I'm I I I cannot I'm at

746
00:37:55,250 --> 00:37:52,500
the end of a project like bass so which

747
00:37:58,849 --> 00:37:55,260
was called 80 but atip was just a

748
00:38:02,930 --> 00:37:58,859
nickname but essentially the you know

749
00:38:08,270 --> 00:38:02,940
the project we did in Las Vegas uh run

750
00:38:11,050 --> 00:38:08,280
by Mr Bigelow in a small group that

751
00:38:15,109 --> 00:38:11,060
to my knowledge has remained classified

752
00:38:17,329 --> 00:38:15,119
except for a few a few things that have

753
00:38:19,569 --> 00:38:17,339
been published under

754
00:38:23,990 --> 00:38:19,579
after review

755
00:38:27,710 --> 00:38:24,000
uh by Dr colb Keller you know the the

756
00:38:29,930 --> 00:38:27,720
book about the the Pentagon you know and

757
00:38:50,470 --> 00:38:29,940
the

758
00:38:54,650 --> 00:38:50,480
it's

759
00:38:58,069 --> 00:38:54,660
suddenly the largest you know 260 000

760
00:39:02,810 --> 00:38:58,079
cases from all over the world that came

761
00:39:06,410 --> 00:39:02,820
in part from my own old five from France

762
00:39:09,109 --> 00:39:06,420
and South America and other places that

763
00:39:11,510 --> 00:39:09,119
that I brought into the project and I

764
00:39:14,569 --> 00:39:11,520
still have those so I mean some of the

765
00:39:18,650 --> 00:39:14,579
data has come from the outside from the

766
00:39:21,470 --> 00:39:18,660
civilian civilian fires and some of it

767
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:21,480
was developed internally by the project

768
00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:25,040
itself so that um

769
00:39:30,109 --> 00:39:28,320
you know some of it some of the the

770
00:39:31,310 --> 00:39:30,119
computer science data about the

771
00:39:35,270 --> 00:39:31,320
architecture

772
00:39:38,329 --> 00:39:35,280
is is still classified but

773
00:39:41,150 --> 00:39:38,339
um we never had the chance to get into

774
00:39:44,089 --> 00:39:41,160
what I really wanted to do which was the

775
00:39:48,170 --> 00:39:44,099
AI development on top of the data

776
00:39:51,650 --> 00:39:48,180
warehouse it it's not one fly you cannot

777
00:39:55,310 --> 00:39:51,660
do it as one five because the the

778
00:39:58,790 --> 00:39:55,320
characteristics of every environment are

779
00:40:02,270 --> 00:39:58,800
different you know the the ratio of

780
00:40:05,270 --> 00:40:02,280
explainable cases against

781
00:40:07,329 --> 00:40:05,280
truly unknown cases is going to be

782
00:40:10,550 --> 00:40:07,339
different if you're talking about Pilots

783
00:40:12,349 --> 00:40:10,560
or if you're talking about civilians or

784
00:40:16,010 --> 00:40:12,359
if you're talking about instruments and

785
00:40:17,809 --> 00:40:16,020
so on so those have to be kept in stove

786
00:40:19,790 --> 00:40:17,819
types that are parallel

787
00:40:23,089 --> 00:40:19,800
and then there is a structure a design

788
00:40:25,849 --> 00:40:23,099
that carries across all the stove bikes

789
00:40:29,170 --> 00:40:25,859
on which we could you know eventually

790
00:40:32,870 --> 00:40:29,180
the project was to First

791
00:40:35,630 --> 00:40:32,880
analyze everything to to clean up the

792
00:40:38,329 --> 00:40:35,640
entire database because right now it's

793
00:40:41,510 --> 00:40:38,339
compromised with things that are errors

794
00:40:44,990 --> 00:40:41,520
we we know that we know that more than

795
00:40:47,510 --> 00:40:45,000
half of the data that is reported is an

796
00:40:49,849 --> 00:40:47,520
error it could be the Moon Rising for

797
00:40:52,730 --> 00:40:49,859
the fog or it could be you know a very

798
00:40:56,329 --> 00:40:52,740
high altitude aircraft that that's

799
00:40:58,970 --> 00:40:56,339
mistaken for UFO and so on so those uh

800
00:41:02,470 --> 00:40:58,980
those are still there and you know it's

801
00:41:06,130 --> 00:41:02,480
a very painstaking job to

802
00:41:09,589 --> 00:41:06,140
clean up those data the data warehouse

803
00:41:13,190 --> 00:41:09,599
and that only then can you build a

804
00:41:16,730 --> 00:41:13,200
decent level of AI on top of it which is

805
00:41:18,650 --> 00:41:16,740
what what our team was ready to do but

806
00:41:22,010 --> 00:41:18,660
the as you know the project stopped

807
00:41:25,370 --> 00:41:22,020
after two years so that resource which

808
00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:25,380
is really a you know an American

809
00:41:31,550 --> 00:41:27,119
treasure

810
00:41:33,109 --> 00:41:31,560
uh developed by something like 25 or 30

811
00:41:35,390 --> 00:41:33,119
people

812
00:41:38,270 --> 00:41:35,400
you know it's not a small project over

813
00:41:41,390 --> 00:41:38,280
two years so there is at least 16

814
00:41:43,089 --> 00:41:41,400
million years of work that has gone into

815
00:41:47,089 --> 00:41:43,099
that

816
00:41:49,790 --> 00:41:47,099
and uh you know I I assume it's

817
00:41:52,910 --> 00:41:49,800
preserved and is

818
00:41:55,849 --> 00:41:52,920
there may be some work on ongoing from

819
00:41:58,550 --> 00:41:55,859
other contractors of the of the defense

820
00:42:01,430 --> 00:41:58,560
department and I'm not critical but

821
00:42:03,829 --> 00:42:01,440
beyond that I cannot talk about exactly

822
00:42:05,630 --> 00:42:03,839
what we did but if I did it would be

823
00:42:08,450 --> 00:42:05,640
very boring you know I mean there was no

824
00:42:10,849 --> 00:42:08,460
you know we didn't capture in the live

825
00:42:13,849 --> 00:42:10,859
alien they pledged but what your

826
00:42:16,970 --> 00:42:13,859
listener wants to know yeah well you

827
00:42:19,010 --> 00:42:16,980
know it is you think about it it's kind

828
00:42:20,390 --> 00:42:19,020
of a shame that you used the term a

829
00:42:21,829 --> 00:42:20,400
couple of times we'll never see the

830
00:42:23,870 --> 00:42:21,839
light of day or may see the light of day

831
00:42:26,630 --> 00:42:23,880
and that makes me think of all the way

832
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:26,640
back to this avocado shaped crash in

833
00:42:35,390 --> 00:42:31,920
1945 and all these supposed crashed if

834
00:42:37,550 --> 00:42:35,400
if they do exist and it's being kind of

835
00:42:41,270 --> 00:42:37,560
held away from Humanity you know top

836
00:42:44,210 --> 00:42:41,280
secret yes but still it's like uh these

837
00:42:46,010 --> 00:42:44,220
Treasures are being you know concealed

838
00:42:47,650 --> 00:42:46,020
and I I don't think it does anyone any

839
00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:47,660
any good

840
00:42:55,630 --> 00:42:52,140
well yes but um that's where the power

841
00:42:59,089 --> 00:42:55,640
of the computer comes in as you know

842
00:43:02,569 --> 00:42:59,099
like training in my early careers in

843
00:43:04,550 --> 00:43:02,579
computer science and AI so you start

844
00:43:08,210 --> 00:43:04,560
looking for correlations

845
00:43:10,430 --> 00:43:08,220
and what is striking to me about the

846
00:43:12,309 --> 00:43:10,440
Trinity case you know I'll try to show

847
00:43:15,829 --> 00:43:12,319
this to you from the book

848
00:43:17,690 --> 00:43:15,839
there are two other cases that are like

849
00:43:22,550 --> 00:43:17,700
the Trinity case

850
00:43:25,790 --> 00:43:22,560
there is a case in valencol in France

851
00:43:29,690 --> 00:43:25,800
where the object was egg shaped and

852
00:43:32,510 --> 00:43:29,700
there were two short creatures and there

853
00:43:33,829 --> 00:43:32,520
is of course a Socorro case which is

854
00:43:38,750 --> 00:43:33,839
also

855
00:43:41,750 --> 00:43:38,760
not a disc but it is a an egg-shaped

856
00:43:42,650 --> 00:43:41,760
object an oval object and as you can see

857
00:43:44,530 --> 00:43:42,660
there

858
00:43:49,370 --> 00:43:44,540
in

859
00:43:53,349 --> 00:43:49,380
the um

860
00:43:57,710 --> 00:43:53,359
not only is a shape similar but the

861
00:44:01,609 --> 00:43:57,720
occupants are similar as well now in the

862
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:01,619
case of Trinity the two kids saw

863
00:44:07,730 --> 00:44:04,800
they come close to try to help what they

864
00:44:11,150 --> 00:44:07,740
think are the pilots there is no pilot

865
00:44:13,250 --> 00:44:11,160
there are three strong creatures that

866
00:44:16,010 --> 00:44:13,260
are the above the size of the kids they

867
00:44:19,250 --> 00:44:16,020
are about you know three feet tall

868
00:44:23,390 --> 00:44:19,260
they breathe our air they have two eyes

869
00:44:27,109 --> 00:44:23,400
the small nose a small mouth

870
00:44:30,890 --> 00:44:27,119
um so they they look a little bit like

871
00:44:33,170 --> 00:44:30,900
insects they look a little bit like you

872
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:33,180
know what which streamer describes in

873
00:44:37,069 --> 00:44:34,800
this book

874
00:44:41,569 --> 00:44:37,079
um but they are dwarf

875
00:44:44,870 --> 00:44:41,579
size and they breathe our air they seem

876
00:44:47,210 --> 00:44:44,880
to be in great trauma they move around

877
00:44:50,809 --> 00:44:47,220
the next day they are not there we don't

878
00:44:51,890 --> 00:44:50,819
know if they escape during the night or

879
00:44:54,349 --> 00:44:51,900
if

880
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:54,359
you know the there was a report to

881
00:44:59,569 --> 00:44:57,119
Alamogordo so maybe they sent a couple

882
00:45:02,870 --> 00:44:59,579
of guys with the Jeep to find out what

883
00:45:05,870 --> 00:45:02,880
was going on they may have captured the

884
00:45:08,510 --> 00:45:05,880
beings we we never see them again the

885
00:45:12,109 --> 00:45:08,520
the two kids are going to be there for

886
00:45:15,050 --> 00:45:12,119
the next 10 days following the recovery

887
00:45:17,630 --> 00:45:15,060
they hide in the bushes it's fascinating

888
00:45:19,550 --> 00:45:17,640
for them I mean remember when you were a

889
00:45:22,030 --> 00:45:19,560
nine-year-old wouldn't you have been

890
00:45:26,210 --> 00:45:22,040
fascinated to see something like that

891
00:45:27,470 --> 00:45:26,220
on your land so uh they are watching

892
00:45:33,050 --> 00:45:27,480
this

893
00:45:36,230 --> 00:45:33,060
that there is no no more mention of

894
00:45:38,630 --> 00:45:36,240
the entities or the aliens if you want

895
00:45:41,990 --> 00:45:38,640
to call their names except in an

896
00:45:45,349 --> 00:45:42,000
unrelated or in maybe in a related case

897
00:45:48,050 --> 00:45:45,359
in the neighborhood later on but but as

898
00:45:49,069 --> 00:45:48,060
far as the site itself we never see them

899
00:45:53,030 --> 00:45:49,079
again

900
00:45:56,230 --> 00:45:53,040
but in Socorro which is a case I know

901
00:45:59,829 --> 00:45:56,240
well because I I worked on it

902
00:46:02,450 --> 00:45:59,839
with Dr heinek at the time

903
00:46:06,490 --> 00:46:02,460
they were as you know there were two

904
00:46:09,730 --> 00:46:06,500
entities there were two small dwarfs

905
00:46:12,470 --> 00:46:09,740
about three feet high

906
00:46:15,470 --> 00:46:12,480
who were breathing our hair and they

907
00:46:17,210 --> 00:46:15,480
look at Lani Zamora and then they

908
00:46:19,970 --> 00:46:17,220
re-enter the thing and the thing takes

909
00:46:23,569 --> 00:46:19,980
off okay and the material values

910
00:46:26,510 --> 00:46:23,579
material is recovered and I go into I

911
00:46:29,089 --> 00:46:26,520
I've updated that case in Trinity

912
00:46:31,250 --> 00:46:29,099
because you indeed you were talking

913
00:46:34,370 --> 00:46:31,260
about you know you should never give up

914
00:46:36,890 --> 00:46:34,380
on a case you should always look for new

915
00:46:40,430 --> 00:46:36,900
things that happen well new things have

916
00:46:42,890 --> 00:46:40,440
happened in fact in the case of Socorro

917
00:46:45,530 --> 00:46:42,900
new things have come to light that had

918
00:46:48,589 --> 00:46:45,540
never been published before and we know

919
00:46:52,190 --> 00:46:48,599
it was not a hoax we know it was not a

920
00:46:55,250 --> 00:46:52,200
joke we know that materials were

921
00:46:57,770 --> 00:46:55,260
recovered and materials were in fact get

922
00:47:02,089 --> 00:46:57,780
secreted and hidden away

923
00:47:05,210 --> 00:47:02,099
so and then there is a running sort case

924
00:47:06,650 --> 00:47:05,220
I've I've gone to valensol I've met the

925
00:47:10,130 --> 00:47:06,660
witness

926
00:47:13,670 --> 00:47:10,140
what we remember as a French Farmer in

927
00:47:17,170 --> 00:47:13,680
the midi of the south of France he goes

928
00:47:20,450 --> 00:47:17,180
into his field because this is in July

929
00:47:23,569 --> 00:47:20,460
1965. it's going to be very hot during

930
00:47:25,609 --> 00:47:23,579
the day if you've been in the south of

931
00:47:27,410 --> 00:47:25,619
France you know you know in the summer

932
00:47:32,089 --> 00:47:27,420
it's very very hot

933
00:47:34,490 --> 00:47:32,099
and so he he wants to water you know his

934
00:47:36,890 --> 00:47:34,500
field and he wants to do some work

935
00:47:39,170 --> 00:47:36,900
before it gets too hot

936
00:47:40,069 --> 00:47:39,180
he gets there and he sees his overall

937
00:47:43,490 --> 00:47:40,079
object

938
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:43,500
that he thinks from a distance is a some

939
00:47:48,770 --> 00:47:46,319
sort of helicopter of a French army and

940
00:47:51,470 --> 00:47:48,780
he's going to tell them you know I know

941
00:47:54,530 --> 00:47:51,480
no no uncertain words but they they are

942
00:47:57,950 --> 00:47:54,540
not allowed to you know to land in a

943
00:47:58,910 --> 00:47:57,960
private field where something is being

944
00:48:02,809 --> 00:47:58,920
grown

945
00:48:05,569 --> 00:48:02,819
uh and then when as he comes closer two

946
00:48:08,510 --> 00:48:05,579
things happen first he realizes that

947
00:48:11,990 --> 00:48:08,520
there are dwarf you know that the thing

948
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:12,000
is not a helicopter that it it's resting

949
00:48:19,370 --> 00:48:13,760
on on four legs

950
00:48:23,569 --> 00:48:19,380
and the two entities the two pilots are

951
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:23,579
human looking now dwarf and they breathe

952
00:48:30,470 --> 00:48:27,359
our hair so you have three cases now you

953
00:48:34,490 --> 00:48:30,480
can argue about Trinity because you know

954
00:48:37,250 --> 00:48:34,500
Paula and I are the the ones who brought

955
00:48:39,790 --> 00:48:37,260
the case by the way it had been

956
00:48:43,010 --> 00:48:39,800
researched before by a couple of other

957
00:48:45,470 --> 00:48:43,020
ufologists in the U.S but we were the

958
00:48:48,530 --> 00:48:45,480
first ones to document the whole case

959
00:48:51,829 --> 00:48:48,540
and first power line she brought me in

960
00:48:55,069 --> 00:48:51,839
for the the assessment of the traces in

961
00:48:55,849 --> 00:48:55,079
American Hills the

962
00:49:00,349 --> 00:48:55,859
um

963
00:49:02,510 --> 00:49:00,359
so that you know that that case is comes

964
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:02,520
from our research but the other two

965
00:49:07,970 --> 00:49:03,599
cases

966
00:49:10,849 --> 00:49:07,980
are verified by state and Military

967
00:49:14,990 --> 00:49:10,859
authorities in both cases you know in

968
00:49:18,829 --> 00:49:15,000
Socorro there was White Sands there was

969
00:49:20,809 --> 00:49:18,839
the local police there was the FBI which

970
00:49:24,230 --> 00:49:20,819
happened to be there on completely

971
00:49:27,230 --> 00:49:24,240
unrelated things but the FBI helped in

972
00:49:29,329 --> 00:49:27,240
securing the data and then there was the

973
00:49:31,670 --> 00:49:29,339
Air Force there were several levels of

974
00:49:35,089 --> 00:49:31,680
the Air Force and of course Dr heinek

975
00:49:36,710 --> 00:49:35,099
himself went there so there was a

976
00:49:39,530 --> 00:49:36,720
complete investigation by different

977
00:49:43,609 --> 00:49:39,540
agencies this is not you know in the

978
00:49:46,069 --> 00:49:43,619
flags of some amateur group you know not

979
00:49:48,910 --> 00:49:46,079
to mean that amateur groups cannot do a

980
00:49:52,250 --> 00:49:48,920
good study but here you have three

981
00:49:55,549 --> 00:49:52,260
complementary Studies by agencies of the

982
00:49:56,569 --> 00:49:55,559
US government or by local you know state

983
00:50:00,410 --> 00:49:56,579
government

984
00:50:03,650 --> 00:50:00,420
in Valentine there were five agencies of

985
00:50:06,170 --> 00:50:03,660
the French government that investigated

986
00:50:08,809 --> 00:50:06,180
the case separately you know the police

987
00:50:11,450 --> 00:50:08,819
and the Air Force the French

988
00:50:15,890 --> 00:50:11,460
intelligence and even the French Customs

989
00:50:18,410 --> 00:50:15,900
so I asked why the customs and I learned

990
00:50:22,430 --> 00:50:18,420
something very interesting that that

991
00:50:25,130 --> 00:50:22,440
area was often used by helicopters

992
00:50:27,890 --> 00:50:25,140
that were doing illegal traffic with

993
00:50:30,470 --> 00:50:27,900
Switzerland if you want to take all your

994
00:50:33,349 --> 00:50:30,480
gold I assume you have lots of goals

995
00:50:36,010 --> 00:50:33,359
that you're hiding oh yes you take it to

996
00:50:39,710 --> 00:50:36,020
Switzerland like I do

997
00:50:42,650 --> 00:50:39,720
Switzerland uh and you're French you

998
00:50:44,390 --> 00:50:42,660
hire a helicopter that can take it to a

999
00:50:47,089 --> 00:50:44,400
bank over there of course that doesn't

1000
00:50:50,569 --> 00:50:47,099
work anymore because with Swiss have you

1001
00:50:54,230 --> 00:50:50,579
know shut down that traffic but in those

1002
00:50:57,710 --> 00:50:54,240
days 1965 uh you know the Customs were

1003
00:51:01,370 --> 00:50:57,720
chasing those illegal you know transfers

1004
00:51:02,329 --> 00:51:01,380
of currency or documents or anything

1005
00:51:05,630 --> 00:51:02,339
else

1006
00:51:08,809 --> 00:51:05,640
so they had in fact they had authority

1007
00:51:11,390 --> 00:51:08,819
to to investigate and they took one look

1008
00:51:14,450 --> 00:51:11,400
at the data and they they could see that

1009
00:51:18,950 --> 00:51:14,460
it was no no helicopter anybody has ever

1010
00:51:21,650 --> 00:51:18,960
built for one thing the the witness

1011
00:51:25,849 --> 00:51:21,660
described it and described it to me when

1012
00:51:28,190 --> 00:51:25,859
I I followed the investigation and met a

1013
00:51:32,690 --> 00:51:28,200
number of other people in the area who

1014
00:51:36,530 --> 00:51:32,700
knew about those cases he said it

1015
00:51:41,210 --> 00:51:36,540
took off and then it it went up and it

1016
00:51:44,390 --> 00:51:41,220
vanished it didn't just go off in the

1017
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:44,400
distance in the sky it just went over 50

1018
00:51:50,329 --> 00:51:48,000
feet you know in the air and vanished

1019
00:51:55,069 --> 00:51:50,339
so so much for all the theories about

1020
00:51:56,990 --> 00:51:55,079
you know special propulsions the

1021
00:52:00,710 --> 00:51:57,000
propulsion must be very special because

1022
00:52:03,530 --> 00:52:00,720
in the Trinity case on the last day when

1023
00:52:05,569 --> 00:52:03,540
the object was on the side the two kids

1024
00:52:08,329 --> 00:52:05,579
thought hey you know that's the

1025
00:52:11,329 --> 00:52:08,339
opportunity to find out what makes it

1026
00:52:15,790 --> 00:52:11,339
work so they see the underside the

1027
00:52:19,430 --> 00:52:15,800
underside is and remember

1028
00:52:22,609 --> 00:52:19,440
Mr Padilla Jose Padilla went inside the

1029
00:52:24,890 --> 00:52:22,619
object at the end and I asked him what

1030
00:52:25,790 --> 00:52:24,900
the floor was like well the floor was

1031
00:52:32,329 --> 00:52:25,800
flat

1032
00:52:35,390 --> 00:52:32,339
maybe two or three feet under the floor

1033
00:52:40,309 --> 00:52:35,400
where an engine couldn't be but there

1034
00:52:42,950 --> 00:52:40,319
was no opening and under the avocado you

1035
00:52:46,370 --> 00:52:42,960
know it was smooth there were a couple

1036
00:52:50,089 --> 00:52:46,380
of metal bumps but there was no opening

1037
00:52:53,750 --> 00:52:50,099
there was no jet there was no propeller

1038
00:52:55,430 --> 00:52:53,760
amazing I hate I hate to do this but we

1039
00:52:57,049 --> 00:52:55,440
are right at the end of the hour and we

1040
00:52:59,750 --> 00:52:57,059
have there's another show coming right

1041
00:53:01,910 --> 00:52:59,760
up so uh yeah hold your book up if you

1042
00:53:05,089 --> 00:53:01,920
would for everyone and the name of it is

1043
00:53:07,130 --> 00:53:05,099
Trinity the best kept secret shock it's

1044
00:53:10,309 --> 00:53:07,140
always a pleasure to speak with you and

1045
00:53:15,530 --> 00:53:10,319
it says your meticulous research reveals

1046
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:15,540
how alien technology has been concealed

1047
00:53:20,690 --> 00:53:18,720
okay because now we know something we

1048
00:53:24,290 --> 00:53:20,700
didn't know you know a couple of years

1049
00:53:26,089 --> 00:53:24,300
ago that this was in fact technology it

1050
00:53:28,490 --> 00:53:26,099
was very very frequency

1051
00:53:30,829 --> 00:53:28,500
very good thank you so much and that

1052
00:53:32,569 --> 00:53:30,839
link is right in the show notes and on

1053
00:53:33,650 --> 00:53:32,579
the website thank you you need to take

1054
00:53:35,270 --> 00:53:33,660
care now

1055
00:53:36,890 --> 00:53:35,280
okay all right

1056
00:53:38,870 --> 00:53:36,900
all right everyone so that's it for the

1057
00:53:40,970 --> 00:53:38,880
show thank you so much and again that

1058
00:53:42,950 --> 00:53:40,980
book is right on the website and my

1059
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:42,960
website's down right now I'm gonna look

1060
00:53:47,390 --> 00:53:45,119
into that but thank you all uh for

1061
00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:47,400
listening and watching and we'll be back

1062
00:53:50,260 --> 00:53:49,200
next week and remember to keep your eyes

1063
00:54:00,790 --> 00:53:50,270
to the sky